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Forum posts for It's Evolution BABY!!

Posted by Katie on Feb 24, 2004
I have to say that creationism makes absolutely no sense to me. Why would some supreme being put us all on this world, just to see us make horrible mistakes on the level of wars and massacres and then sit back and watch.

So my vote is for evolution. I hope I understand how it works....I took a course entitled just that only a year ago. To me, it makes sense. How and why it happened, all logical and not subjected to the view of someone who just decided one day to sit down and write out the story of God. It is, of course, a debatable topic even for those who believe in it, but nothing is concrete and for sure I guess.

But I have to say that I was flabbergasted the other day when I brought this topic up with my boyfriend. And his answer (correct me if I'm wrong) was that there has to be someone out there, some supreme being, who organized evolution, and started it on its way. He didn't believe in the chance of it all. He said he does believe in evolution over creationism, but thinks that someone had to have a hand it in, to give it a helpful push and get it on its way. I guess he figures that there has to be a reason as to why evolution started. Again, if I'm misrepresenting you, feel free to explain yourself.

I am the opposite. I like that there isn't a reason that it started, I think that is the nature of science. The unexpected path of life....who knows where we'll end up next? Maybe in another 100,000 years humans, as we know them, will be obsolete, and only little fairy creatures will still be living. Because I do believe in fairies. sum up. Evolution all the way! I don't like the thought of some supreme being having pulled all these strings and made humans according to what he/she/they thought was the best look.

The 'guy' that first got the stone rolli
Posted by Nerhael on Feb 24, 2004
I read a book of fiction recently, called Calculating God by Robert J Sawyer.

The story takes place in Toronto, mostly at the ROM in fact. It's about an alien that comes to earth, and wants to speak with a paleantologist, and goes to the ROM to find one.

The alien actually represents came on a ship with a bunch of others, with other alien civilizations represented. Now, the basic plot of the story is proving that 'God' exists. But the term 'God' is used solely cause it's the closest approximation to what they're looking for.

They're looking for 'something' that got the ball rolling, and then just kinda sat around. Their explanations for why this has to be so is explained in terms of scientific anomolies in nature, as well as through the fiction itself. The only science reference I can remember really is the anomolous nature of water, and how if water didn't do that, life supposedly would never have happened.

Anywho, just felt that the book made some interesting points, but that it required it's fictional elements to be really believable that a 'God' existed. The science stuff could still be chance, but the fictional elements of the book left it as a "I believe in chance...but um.....god damn that's a lot of luck and coincidence."

Book link for those interested.

Posted by mike on Feb 24, 2004
I am not sure how to feel about my ramble on religion being suprisingly coherent. I am therefore defaulting to feeling great about it, just fucking great! Thanks for that.

I believe in evolution. As for how it started I propose the following options:

1.) Random. A bunch of random events took place that randomly ended up with life coming to be and randomly changing (more like adapting) into what we have today. I mean random in the most scientific way of course. Whatever that means. This is what Katie is talking about I think, more or less.

2.) "God" started evolution. People back in teh day of bible writing or whatever, people didn't have the capacity to understand evolution, so instead decided that God just put people on the planet. God found this all quite amusing and never bothered to correct anybody. This is what Miguel is talking about I think, more or less.

3.) Some other sentient beings seeded the planet. Then evolution took over and here we are. I am pretty sure that is from Star Trek.

I think that it could be any one of these things. But keep in mind that #2 and 3 could be construed to be the same type of thing. I like to believe that #1 is true no matter how you look at it. I think that because in order for #2 or #3 to happen #1 would have needed to happen (somewhere at some time) in order for "God" or another sentient being(s) to be in existance.

It is also possible to change "God" in #2 to "The collective will of the universe", and still have some kind of plausable theory.

I figure you can kind of mix and match any of the above to come up with a pretty good story for how life came to exist. I would like to see someone present something else that I haven't though of though.

One thing is for sure I think. The world was not created when some guys were fighting and fell from the heavens onto the back of a giant turtle which turned out to be the Earth. I am pretty sure that didn't happen anyway, although I can think of a way that #3 could be modified to reflect a modern story which is similar.

This is fun.

Posted by mike on Feb 24, 2004
I guess that it would be a lot of coincidence and whatever. I guess it boils down to whether or not you believe that:

A million monkey typing on a million typewriters would eventually... how does that go? You know what I am talking about.

Posted by Aaron on Feb 25, 2004
I suggest a cone-shaped model... The very basic of rules being at the point, and then from those, other rules are formed and so on... Then eventually all the rules start to block each other out and you're back at the beginning of the cone.

So there could be a God, and he'd be in the layer nearer to the point. Then there's us, produced from within that layer and therefor above His...

So I agree with however it was that said our reality was created, and we were just part of the overall plan. I don't think it was all about us.

And as to the "why would someone make us just to watch us kill each other", haven't we been doing things like that with rats and other animals for a while now? Just because He's God doesn't mean He isn't just doing this for research :P