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Forum posts for Your best Mind Fuck

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Posted by crux on Jan 21, 2004
i know you already mentioned Phillip K Dick, but i just have to say...

V.A.L.I.S.

as a trilogy, or by itself.

Not sure... arguing? What?
Posted by mike on Jan 21, 2004
First of all, I AM one of those people who claim they saw the ending of The Usual Suspects (TUS) coming. Are you calling me a liar? Something that I think you need to take into account is probability. By that I mean that out of the millions of people that saw that movie isn’t there a pretty good chance that a few of them guessed the ending? I would say that there is a very distinct possibility because it happened. James was there, but I don’t know if he’ll recall. But if he does recall, I KNOW that you aren’t calling James a liar.
In no way am I saying that I always see the end coming in a movie, I usually don’t. In the case of TUS I was just a lucky bastard to guess it, but I still guessed it. When you randomly yell things while watching a movie, some of them might actually be accurate… somehow.

I also don’t understand this “mind fuck” thing you are talking about. When a story takes a dramatic twist and it is great I don’t call it a mind fuck, I call it awesome story telling. If I don’t like it I refer to it making no sense or sucking. This is most likely due to the fact that I don’t read much and am very unproficient (apparently that’s not a word, but it only better proves my point) at grammer and things of a literary nature. This is also the reason that I don’t like to read instructions on things.

In thinking more about this I am now convinced that it comes down to terminology. You use mind fuck as a general term, I have different terms which I use for different levels of liking the plot twist or not.

I must require further explanation of the mind fuck. Is a mind fuck when a story confuses you? If so then a lot of stories have mind fucked me. Is a mind fuck when there is a plot twist in a story?

In summing up I present the following argument:

I like stories. -Mike

dotdotdot
Posted by phduffy on Jan 21, 2004
It's not that I think you're a liar, it's just that my mind refuses to accept the possibility that you knew what was going on.

A good example of my second case is when you want to watch the movie over again to try to get all the clues that you missed the first time.

Or if you finish the last chapter of a book, get a smile and confused look on your face, and then start skimming back through the book to the scenes that now make sense, or that you think can't make sense anymore, only to realize that the author left hints and escapes for himself.

TUS, time travel, shooting the undead, a
Posted by mike on Jan 21, 2004
Regarding TUS: It was a guess, I didn't specifically know what was going on. I guessed at the end result and happened to be correct. Man... talking about stuff without ruining it for others is hard. Also, as you said, when you look back it is quite plain that there are many clues and hints. Why is so impossible for someone to notice some of these clues etc. during the first go-around?

So is any story involving time travel a mind fuck then? Time travel makes little to no sense usually.

Are the Evil Dead movies a mind fuck? He gets his mind broken over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over. His mind is definitely fucked. Also he gets a mechanical hand at one point. And his "boom stick" is pure awesomeness. Not to mention the ecsquisite implementation of a 30-30 (I really want one of those). I want to see those movies again.

Aside: for some reason it feels like someone has jammed a knife into my guts, and every once in a while the knife gets twisted. Weird.

Remember:
The possibility that time travel could exist may, in fact, negate the possibility of time travel existing.

gah
Posted by phduffy on Jan 21, 2004
Dude, you can have a mind fuck be whatever you want it to be.
You don't need me to tell you what it is.

Just something that Mind Fucked you!

I'm not sure I follow everything you said, but:
"The possibility that time travel exists may negate the possibility of time travel"
is a good example of a paradox that's a good mind fuck.
I don't understand why the possibility of time travel may negate the possibility of time travel, but it's a good example nonetheless.

Question:

If time travel existed, wouldn't we have encoutered someone from the future by now?

Book Ending
Posted by Nerhael on Jan 21, 2004
The end of "Game of Thrones" by George R. R. Martin. Never even considered it a possibility. Authors really almost never do that.

RE: TUS
Posted by Nerhael on Jan 21, 2004
Part of the problem with this kind of thing is that people talk up the 'mindfuck' aspect of the movie, and other movies that have said things.

This get's people trying to guess what the mindfuck is, where the original person that told them wasn't expecting any mind fucking, which is what made it the mind fuck.

yep
Posted by phduffy on Jan 21, 2004
Oh Yeah, definetely.

If I didn't know that the 6th Sense had a trick ending, I never would have guessed the ending.

Your message needs a title.
Posted by alltogethernow on Jan 21, 2004
phduffy said:

"If time travel existed, wouldn't we have encoutered someone from the future by now?"

we have...

www.johntitor.com

dude is either crazy, from the future, or just very very bored

he says that there will be a US civil war in 2005
he wrote this in 2000
we'll find out if this guy is the real shit .. pretty damn soon

oh yeah....
Posted by alltogethernow on Jan 21, 2004
VALIS fucked me multiple times..

to continue the analogy..

VALIS gave me a 14 or 15 hour tantric mindfuck that fucked me in ways i have never been mindfucked before..

i heart p k dick




ow...
Posted by cosmicfish on Jan 21, 2004
My brother and I watched The Usual Suspects for the first time this summer and we both knew who was Kyser Soze.

Maybe it is because I have heard you all talk about this movie so much I already knew somewhere in my subconscience, but then how did Alex know? Maybe because this actor had become much more popluar in recent years and we could identify his voice in the beginning when he is shooting Dean Keaton. Maybe there have been movies made that copy this particular sort of mind fucking and we have been seasoned by this and were expecting it.

Had I watched it when it came out in 1995 I probably wouldn't have known who Soze was, but I definitly saw it coming last August.

blerp
Posted by cosmicfish on Jan 21, 2004
I am also from the future.

Sigh
Posted by phduffy on Jan 21, 2004
I really don't think that you people are listening.

You can't convince me that you knew the ending of the Usual Suspects, because my brain refuses to accept it. Rightly or wrongly (well okay, wrongly), I can't live in a world where people got that.

And I find your story dubious.... first it was your brother, now it's you and your brother?

Plus, I'm not convinced on the voice thing.

Valis is actually what got me thinking about all this.

Although, I know there was another book in the not too distant past that I read, and then when I got to the end of it, I had to frantically flip back to other chapters to see what was going on.
Unfortunately, I don't remember it.

Gah... I'm so fat.
Posted by mike on Jan 22, 2004
Captain... I can see into the future.

Dude's "time travel" machine looks less than impressive. That's all I am going to say.

If you want to subscribe to his version of time travel then you also have to believe in infinite universes or continuums that branch off from each impossibly small unit of time itself. He basically stated that in the few bits I read on that website regarding changing the future.

WARNING: the next part makes no sense, turn back while there is still time. i have attempted to descibe something that is clear in my own mind again. I believe that I have failed to describe it properly... again.

As near as I can tell there are 3 ways to look at time travel:

1.) Infinite continuums:
You can go back in "time" to a point from which your continuum branched off, or before that. Any changes you make will start a new continnum that is independent of the one you came from. You cannot change your continuum because if you did you might not have come back in time in the first place and you wouldn't have changed whatever you did, so you would have come back in time, but you couldn't... not easy to describe. Going forward in time would be screwed up.

2.) The easy view I like:
You can't travel in time. The fact that it might be possible to travel in time negates the possibility of travelling in time. In theory you could travel forward , but travelling back would wreck everything. The farther you propose to go back in time the more improbable it becomes to actaully do it. If you did change anything then you would probably negate the possibility of actually changing that thing because you would alter the point in time in which you came back, and wouldn't change whatever you did. The timeline is constant. No travelling

3.)Travel all you want... you can't change anything:
The timeline is already set. If you do travel back in time then it was meant to happen. You travelling in time was a part of the timeline. It was always supposed to happen. Anything that you do while "back in time" has already happened in the time you are from...

Alright, I am going to put a disclaimer at the top now. This makes little sense at best. These are the 3 ways I see time travel, I like #2. I can think of no other possibilities that are not a combination of the 3 above views.

Time Travel..
Posted by phduffy on Jan 22, 2004
Mike, I sort of like your number 3 reason for time travel.

Like, don't think of time as linear. It's n-dimensional.

So, let'ts say you travel back in time and meet yourself. Doesn't there at one point have to have been an original you, that travalled back in time to meet a younger you. And that original you doesn't remember meeting his future self, cause he's the one to travel back in time?

Idea 3 says no. It all happends together in our n-dimensional universe.

I actually just read a book that involves an element of time travel and paradox, and might post a review of it later.

Mind Fuck.
Posted by mike on Jan 22, 2004
Quite. I am confused, but that just proves that:

Time travel is a mind fuck.

Also in reading more of that John guy's stuff it seems a lot like the interpretations of Nostradamus' predictions.

Why is there never a prediction of a warm and fuzzy future where everyone gets along? That would be a nice prediction.

!
Posted by cosmicfish on Jan 23, 2004
>>And I find your story dubious.... first it was your brother, now it's you and your brother?

Are you looking for a slap Mr. phduffy? A duel perhaps?

In a book called The Futurological Congress by Stanislaw Lem their future is one where there are layers upon layers of delusion. Every body is drugged with things to make them love their job, pay their taxes, blah blah blah,.... and see things like we do now, blue sky, green trees. You can even take pills to learn things. But then Ijon Tichy takes a mysterious pill, that strips away all the things the drugs make you see, and everyone is poor and eating gruel and sleeping on carboard bunks and have rusty mechanical appendages... I won't tell you the ending but it was sort of a mind fuck as well. A very good book.

hmmmm
Posted by Miguel on Jan 23, 2004
Wait I've heard of that book!

Only when I heard about it, it was called the Matrix.

(Lem probably wrote the book before the Wachowski dudes made the matrix, but it seems damn close)



Yo yah
Posted by Blur on Jan 28, 2004
Mind Blowing : A Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy (Book, forget the author)
Life Altering : Do The Right Thing (Movie by Spike Lee)

And yes The Usual Suspects will go down in history books for decades to come as being the most creative and unpredictable movie of our time.

The Book
Posted by phduffy on Apr 08, 2004
The book I was thinknig of where I had to race backwards through the book was
A Deepness in the Sky
by Vernor Vinge

That also happened with Use of Weapons.

dick in the classroom
Posted by vivian on Apr 10, 2004
a student-initiated course at stanford [forwarded to me by a friend at stanford.. his friend's are teaching this]

http://english.stanford.edu/FMPro?-db=courses2.fp5&-format=description.html&-sortfield=coursenumber&-sortfield=coursesuffix&-sortfield=coursesection&CurrentCourses=Current&SortField=CourseTime&-max=2147483647&-recid=33833&-find=

Alltogethernow
Posted by Miguel on Apr 13, 2004
John Titor is a proven hoax.

titor
Posted by vivian on Apr 13, 2004
where is your proof on this miguel?!

PROOF
Posted by Miguel on Apr 13, 2004
From a discussion forum, just do any check on google and you will see loads of evidence on it.

The evidence is that a GURPS role playing
game from the mid nineties has an almost identical plot to John's
future - even the dates. The link for the rpg site is down now. But it
seems to confirm beyond reasonable doubt that it is a hoax.

John Titor's time machine is a 1950's vintage Civil Defense Set, used in fallout shelters to detect radiation in the air and on people. In one of the photo's of the "time machine" John has pulled the CDV 700 series radiac used for personnel from the container, you can clearly see the Civil Defense Logo on the side of the meter. The metal box that houses the set also contains an air monitor that checks for Tritium and or Neutron radiation. The schematics are for the air monitor that used Ion Mobility Spectrometry or scintillation to detect radiation.
These kits can be purchased at military surplus stores for pocket change, or even found at old fallout shelters.

Cliff

What makes this even more disgusting to me, is that whomever did this (people say its some punk kid or a group of academics) had a website set up where the moderator was in cahoots with them, and they started pimping fucking merchandise for John Titor: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1591964369/qid=1081872151/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/002-9905930-5110440?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

Thats the book, but theres also t-shirts and other shit.

And some people started tracing his IP and he was on another board pretending to be an alien.....

So sorry, but John Titor is nothing but a sham. And he had predicted that several Waco like events would be sprinkled throughout 2004 in preparation for the civil war in 2005....where are they? Whenever people mention waco anything, just turn around and walk away, because theyre just conspiracy loonies.


Phew!
Posted by phduffy on Apr 13, 2004
Man I am ever glad that someone traced his IP address!

Otherwise I would have gone around thinking that someone from the future actually had come back in time.

Man, would I have had egg on my face or what!

:)

You laugh
Posted by Miguel on Apr 13, 2004

But a whole lot of people took him seriously...he talked a good game. Vague enough to not really reveal anything, but with enough little details to flesh it out.