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Forum posts for Vote Vote Vote

Posted by Katie on Jan 18, 2006
After using Kris' fabulous website I felt that I definitely was not going to vote for the conservative dude (reaffirmed my disbelief that anyone would actually after seeing where he/they stand on all the issues that I believe in) but I didn't see a strong reason to vote for the Liberal candidate either.

However, I very strongly do not want Steven Harper in office, so???

Maybe, just maybe, the NDP is on a run right now. And assuming Harper gets in as a minority and gets forced into another election........maybe just maybe the NDP will have enough momentum to win a minority themselves????

Now THAT would be interesting.

Dear God...
Posted by phduffy on Jan 18, 2006
Whatever you do, don't vote for the liberals. Conservative, NDP, Green, Marxist Leninist, anything but the Liberals.
How anyone can look at the Liberals and think they'd possibly deserve your vote blows my mind. Adscam, HRDC boondoggles, Income Trusts, the new Toni Valeri land grant issue... at the very minimum, they need a time out.

I think that anyone who thinks that Stephen Harper is scary is only listening to the Liberal propoganda, and not what he and his party are actually saying. (Not that I'm voting for him, but I'm surprised that people are still scared by him).

I disagree
Posted by Katie on Jan 18, 2006
If you read my post, you would see that I said that AFTER checking out the website the Kris posted, and comparing each candidate in my riding's stance on ISSUES THAT MATTER TO ME I reaffirmed my belief that I cannot vote for the Conservatives.

I am much smarter and independent than to just believe "Liberal propaganda" thank you very much.

And I also don't think that either Laura or I said that we would vote for the Liberals. I believe we both said that we're in a bit of a quandry.

AND neither of us bashed anyone else's political beliefs to the same extent that you did.

Posted by jessie on Jan 18, 2006
all the paries running have tainted pasts, please paul don't pick on one without comparing the others in an equal and fair way.

but outside of this, who the hell do you vote for when all the parties appear to suck? this is going to be an election where i am not voting FOR a party, but against the others, which sucks....

and the green party needs to change their name. their platform is awsome, but everyone associates them with the environment and hippies.

Posted by phduffy on Jan 18, 2006
If you think Stephen Harper is scary, I don't think you're listening to what he's saying, but rather Liberal propoganda.

If you're looking at the party/riding member website and deciding that you disagree with them, that is not deciding not to vote for them because Stephen Harper is scary.

At no point in my post did I ever say that either of you was voting for the Liberals. You both mentioned that you were thinking about it however, and I posted my feelings on that.

and paul
Posted by jessie on Jan 18, 2006
stephen harper looks a robot alien...does he blink?? he is creepy, and if elected other nations are going to laugh/be creeped out by him.

Posted by phduffy on Jan 18, 2006
Jessie, I have already been accused of being too negative here, but with all due respect, this:

all the paries running have tainted pasts, please paul don't pick on one without comparing the others in an equal and fair way.

Is absolute and complete fucking nonsense. Which other governning party of Canada would you like me to compare the Liberals to? What's the horrible tainted past of the NDP? Or the Greens?
No federal party in recent Canadian history has screwed up as much as the Liberals. People who say things like "but they all do it so who cares*" are missing the point. You may think that if another party gets elected they'll have a culture of largesse and entitlement. And you may be right. However, we know for a fact that the federal Liberals feel and act that way. If a new party gets in and starts doing the same thing... we'll kick them out too!

As for the Conservatives, I believe that they have only one candidate (Garth Turner) who's been a federal cabinet minster. I assume they have several provincial cabinet ministers running (Stockwell Day, Tony Clement), but I don't know the numbers.

I can't condone a goverment that will lie, cheat and steal from its people. Even if I thought all parties were like that (which I don't), I'd still give the other parites a chance to show me that they'd behave that way, not give government carte blance to act however it wants with no consequences from the people.

Posted by phduffy on Jan 18, 2006
I forgot to include the *

*I realize that you're not saying this, I'm just using what you said as a jumping off point.

wow to Paul
Posted by Mona on Jan 18, 2006
Paul, you're not old enough to remember other governments ! Mulroney's
Tories were vilified all over the place... as much as the liberals. Hey, you watch the Daley Show ... ALL governments have some degree of corruption or dipping into the public trough. Comparatively, on a world scale, and even on a Canadian scale, these Liberals are small potatoes. Andit's certainly not all of them... hmmm... most of them seem to be Quebec liberals. Let Quebec boot theirs .. that's a good lesson for them.

I too have read the platforms ... but I also remember where Stephen Harper came from .. tigers don't change their spots ;-)

We've had balanced budgets for 12 years ... we're out of billions in deficit spending. We had Harris in Ontario ... anyone care to remember what his government did to social programs?

I'm not saying vote Liberal with no reservations ... but a Tory majority is frightening to me. Yes, the Liberals need a major house cleaning.

A bright note: that you readers here are actually interested. All the media keeps talking about is youth apathy. The Civics teachers (new mandatory course in high school since you all left - .5 credit), they canvassed all the local candidates for materials to use in our school. Their response was PATHETIC !!!!!!!!!! I gave the teachers the website mentioned here, they printed it all out, made a bulletin board outside the library and there have been all kinds of kids reading it. So we thank the Wolfshack for that. We don't see apathy here.

More likely we get stuff like, "I'm not voting Liberal - they want to outlaw handguns."

My biggest fear is that Harper will open the abortion thing ... and undo all the movement for women's control over their own bodies ... I know I'm in Fogeyville here but ... I remember the past.

I don't think the Liberals have a hope in hell here (Verona Jackson, Ovid's wife, is running) but rather than see a Tory win, even though I respect the NDP, it's, once again, "Hold your nose and vote liberal." If for no other reason than to try and avoid a majority.

Interesting times.

Still confused
Posted by Katie on Jan 18, 2006
I never said I thought Steven Harper was scary.

Posted by Katie on Jan 18, 2006
I think you're right on. And I was going to mention Mulroney as scandal-ridden, but all I could think of was the Ipperwash scandal that's in the papers right now. Although, that is enough on its own.

Posted by jessie on Jan 18, 2006
i also think you are right on!

paul if you are going to judge a party by it's past, do it fairly across the board...

top 10 political scandals in canadian history...neither harper nor martin are involved in any, so why are you basing your vote on scandals instead of political platforms???

Posted by phduffy on Jan 18, 2006
I never said I thought Steven Harper was scary.

Right, I apologize for implying that.

Mona, which members of the current Conservative party do you think were part of the corruption of the Mulroney government? I mean, is Harper someone who's never changed his spots, and therefore a Reformer and not a member of the old PCs, or is he actually a PC and therefore not a Reformer and someone who's changed his spots? Or will we just pick and choose the worst of both of those and assign them to him?

Ralph Goodale is from Saskatchewan.
Tony Valeri is from Hamilton.
Paul Martin runs in Montreal and is from Windsor
Chretein was from Windsor
Stronach (who's not corrupt, just spineless) is from Aurora.

Mom, you are way too smart to think that the abortion thing is going to be opened.
Harper doesn't want to open it, the country doesn't want it opened, and more importantly, the Supreme Court won't let it be opened. Same as the gay marriage thing. These are issues that can't and won't be opened, and are brought up as a way to scare you for not voting for the Conservatives. (Now, if you want to be scared by missile defence, well, that's a different issue).

Here's a fun analogy to the current liberal party:

You're walking down the street. Man comes up, slaps you in the face, steals your money, and throws you to the ground. As he's running away, he turns around and yells "Vote Liberal!"

Now, do you vote Liberal? Well, that's exactly what they've done to you. Holding your nose and voting Liberal might work when you think their policies aren't great, but they're better than what anyone else has to offer.
However, doing that when we know that they have no problem abusing the public trust is different. Serisously, what would the Liberals have to do to not get your vote? That's a question I'd like to see answered.
It seems as though for Martin supporters they're approaching dead girl/live boy status - that is, people will vote for them as long as he's not caught in bed with a dead girl and a live boy.

Posted by phduffy on Jan 18, 2006
Jessie, I would like you to offer a scintilla of evidence that the other parties are as corrupt as the Liberals.

I am basing my vote on political platforms, and who I believe can lead the country. I don't believe that the Liberals can lead with any authority, so I then looked at the other parties to find the platform I like best, and I will be voting for that party.

Posted by cosmicfish on Jan 18, 2006
Nothing ever is 100% shiny and innocent.

I would rather vote for the man who slapped me then let a party in whose changes will just widen the gap between classes.

I haven't paid attention to any of the commercials on, they are so juvenile. It would be so nice if the election could happen without name calling.

Posted by Nerhael on Jan 18, 2006
You don't vote for people involved in a shitload of scandals because voting for them suggests that they can continue to get away with it.

It seems like a huge slap on the wrist to oust them perhaps, but I'd rather that than them thinking, "Well crap, we did all this stuff, and we STILL won." And then when something of questional character comes up, they may think back to that, and be swayed in the wrong direction, screwing us again cause they think we'll just ignore it because we hate conservatives so much it'll blind us into voitng for them again and again. And they'll have precedence to believe that.

Posted by phduffy on Jan 18, 2006
Nothing ever is 100% shiny and innocent.

I would rather vote for the man who slapped me then let a party in whose changes will just widen the gap between classes.

Okay, so as to your first point, I challenge everyone again - what are the problems with the NDP and Green parties that you're referring to when you say that nothing is 100% innocent or that all parties have scandals? (Okay, I can think of the financing thing for the leader of the Greens, which I don't think is on the same level, but whatever). As for the Conservatives, which members currently running do you think have a scandalous history?

As for the class gap, do you like the cut to the GST (which helps the poor most) or the income tax cut (which helps middle class the most)? Is it the $1200 that the Conservatives want to give to working families, or the small tax credit they want to give to families who enroll their parties in sports? Is it the corporate tax cuts proposed by the Green party?

oh my god
Posted by Katie on Jan 18, 2006
I'm starting to get scared. I have been saying for a while now to people who will listen (i.e., Miguel) who are these people saying they're going to vote conservative???

Now I know. And I am saddened.

So let me get this straight. There are people out there who are choosing not to vote liberal because of one scandal, not their party platform. And instead they will possibly vote for someone whose platform they don't necessarily agree with or believe in because in the last 10 years they haven't had a major scandal?

But, if these people were in power during the last 10 years, who's to say that they wouldn't have done the same as Liberals, and worse? Chances are, if they had been in power, there would be no gay marriage, we would be at war with Iraq and losing hundreds of men and women in the process, we wouldn't be trying to reduce our greenhouse emissions and thereby making the world a safer place to live, and we would be saying "yup" to the U.S. when they ask us if they can send missiles to space. I'm not trying to genericize so I apologize, it's just that I'm at work and have no time to find real facts.

Are there a lot of people out there who are baseing their vote on the fact that the Liberals spread around some money? Cause if so, I guess I can stop asking Miguel for an answer.

Posted by jessie on Jan 18, 2006
paul how does cutting the GST help "the poor most"??? oh yeah, poor people are making loads of big purchases where they really feel the GST....dammit paul, poor people buy bread and water, not SUVs...
the GST cut is for the rich, and is being disguised as a benefit for the poor...
the conservatives are not interested in social issues, they have approximately 3 lines devoted to arts and culture in their platform, but these three lines also include recreation, because these things totally go together...their platform sucks

FYI $1200 toward child care gets you nothing...child care is expensive...

Posted by phduffy on Jan 18, 2006
Katie, I thought that was an interesting post.
I may respond to it later if I have more time.

The GST is a regressive tax. That means that it taxes poor people more than rich people. Not in dollar amounts, but in percentage. The percentage of a rich person's income that goes towards the GST is much less than a poor person. This is because rich people can do stuff like save their money, and are more likely to find ways to avoid paying GST.

Now, I actually happen to think that an income tax cut is better, as it generates more economic activity, but have no doubt that it benefits people with money, as opposed to people without.

I doubt you'd find an economist in the world who thinks that a GST cut isn't a cut for the poor. Sorry Jessie.

I love it!
Posted by kristian on Jan 18, 2006
I love the political debate.

My 2 cents: last election I asked local raving lunatic Paul Duffy if I should vote for who I liked or against who I didn't like. And he really helped me by letting me know that even if who you like doesn't have a chance in hell of winning (i.e. Green Party) they do receive money for every vote they get. So if I vote Green, they probably wont win this time, but maybe in 4 years they will have enough money to do some serious campaining and get more votes then.

Plus I am going to make the assumption that for our age group, NDP is probably the most appealing choice (seeing as everyone has strong objections against both the Libereals and the Conservatives, as any rational person would). So I say vote NDP, and if everyone follows their heart instead of voting AGAINST Conservative, maybe NDP will get enough seats to actually make an impact. I think a minority government is always better than a don't want to many people with the same agenda running the country.

Or vote communist.

Posted by Nerhael on Jan 18, 2006
Katie, at what point has anyone said they're voting conservative?

Does no one realize there are parties outside the Liberals and Conservatives?

Posted by jessie on Jan 18, 2006
GST is a consumer tax, the poor are in general not large consumers. Income tax cuts are better because they apply to your paycheque, are more tangible and easier to put directly into savings. Outside of this, stores may just raise the cost of items to compensate for the GST cuts, as you are used to paying a specific price for a specific item, and it is a great way for them to squeeze extra pennies from the poor.

i don't care about tax cuts. more important is the environment, social programs, health care and education.

Posted by phduffy on Jan 18, 2006
Jessie, I don't want to be rude, but I can't think of a way of saying this that doesn't come off that way. So don't take it badly. But you're just wrong. The GST cut is better for the poor. I don't really think we can debate this, and I don't know if you'll trust me, but trust me, there has been lots of work done on tax theory, etc, and taxes like the GST hurt the poor more than the rich. They're known as regressive (as opposed to our progressive income tax system) because of this.

As for passing the costs onto customers, I guess this could happen, but I don't understand why it would. Unless you have a near monopoly, I don't see how that's much of an issue. Stores will compete.

As for GST being a consumer tax, yes that's true. It's also true that the poor consumer almost every penny they make, unlike high income earners.

oh god.. so busy but need to add somethi
Posted by alltogethernow on Jan 18, 2006
Paul asked me to post this in the forums.. instead of just our msn conversations

yeah well i don't see anyone good to vote for myself.. but i don't think the liberals are as bad as you seem to feel.. sure they are corrupt .. but whats 50 million here and there compared to a great economy (now slowing) fantastic social situation (YAY FOR GAYS!) and fairly good services across the board

i like canada the way it is now and that is largely due to a 12 year term of liberal governments... so I wouldn't discount them completely...


I also think the LIEberals ( to borrow from the Freepers) should be at least somewhat punished for their mis-deeds. >> so no vote from me

The Conservatives are pretty scummy overall and of course involve a lot of former Reform candidates (which they have kept nicely muffled during this election unlike the previous ones). These are the KKK loving western canadians who are primed to stop Gays from loving one another, and stemming the Asian Invasion we are all so worried about... besides Steven Harper looks like a pedophile... it's pretty obvious that this trekker (ie) loves William Shatner's style of leadership.. (also george bush's) He doesn't go to Ottawa to represent the peoples needs and concerns. He is going there to TELL the people what they need and what they should be concerned about...
>>> so no vote from me

The NDP is also annoying for me... Jack Layton seems to be on the highest horse this election.. the man should be wearing gleaming white full-plate and waving at a fair maiden before entering a jousting tournament...

BUT he'll get my vote .. just for that beautiful goddamn mustache.. sweet lord
The man LOOKS like the best prime-minister we could ever have.. i want him to get elected.. and do some amazing shit like legalize weed.. or save starving babies... JUST so we can have golden statues created to memorialize the astounding NOBILITY of his mustache..

Thats whats getting my vote!

Posted by Katie on Jan 18, 2006
true....I'm not saying that you're voting conservative. But I think the reasoning that you gave for not voting Liberal is the same reasoning that a lot of people are going to use for voting conservative.

Posted by Nerhael on Jan 18, 2006
I really can't see people that would vote liberal voting conservative for that reason. I think the two parties have some significant diverging social views that would send people to the NDP or green party first.

I already voted
Posted by mike on Jan 18, 2006
... and I voted Green, not out of protest either (well...maybe a little bit). I read their platform and it seemed like I agreed with the vast majority of what they were saying, it wasn't as big of a trade off as the other parties. What corporate tax cuts are you referring to Paul? I saw tax incentives and new taxes on polluters, but I must have missed the part about some kind of broad corporate tax cut.

Why I voted Green:
-I agreed with more of the things they said than other parties.
-I thought it was horrifying that they got a good chunk of the vote last time around (around 5%) but were not allowed to debate with the other leaders.
-Parties get $1.75 per vote towards their next campaign.
-I really want to see a few Green MP's. I'd like them to get a foothold so we can all see what they actually try to do when they get a chance.

Why I didn't vote Liberal:
-I don't have a problem with them getting power again, overall I think they did a pretty good job where the economy and budgets are concerned. I think it a little sad that Cretien left a big bag of dogshit for Martin to hold onto. Also, let's face it, a minority government for Martin didn't allow him to accomplish much.
-I'm still sooooo pissed about the origional helicopter deal... dumbasses.
-They need a time out because they really got caught with their hand in the cookie jar. However, $30 million is not a ridiculous amount of money on a Federal scale.
-Every time I saw Martin deny something bad he was accused of he would clear his throat, look around a lot, fiddle around with his hands, touch his face, or just have a dumb look on his face. It didn't instill a lot of confidence in me that he was telling the truth. If he is going to be a leader he needs to develop less nervous habits and a better poker face.
-They botched the campaign plain and simple.

Why I didn't vote Conservative:
-What the hell are they? They still seem to me to be the Alliance with a dash of PC who has taken the Conservative name and dropped the Progressive part. It's kind of like when a company buys out another company, shuts it down, and still uses their trade name.
-What has changed since 1.5 years ago? They have somehow managed to not touch on the issues that sank them last time.
-Harper is doing some good talking, but I have a feeling that when it comes time for action people may not think they got what was being sold to them. I get the distinct impression that there will be a bit of bait and switch (my opinion... we'll have to wait and see what happens).
-This is not the same party that Mulrooney was in, but I haven't heard much good about he last time Conservatives took power.
-I don't like it when parties say they will run a balanced budget, cut taxes, and increase money being spent. It just doesn't make sense.
-Stephen Harper stood at both English debates I saw with a ridiculously crooked tie that also had a very bad knot. The thing was all over the place... I don't know exactly what that means, but it means something.

Why I didn't vote NDP:
-I just didn't. I didn't hear a better reason to vote for them than the Greens.
-I don't like that the left is divided and the right is now united. It pisses me off a little bit that it is now harder for a left wing party to get voted in... and I blame the NDP for that. They keep chipping at the Liberals in the same way that the Conservatives do, but swaying people away from the Liberals mostly by saying the Liberals are bad can have them voting Conservative instead of NDP.
-Jack Layton came across more like a salesman who didn't quite understand his product than a politician. "We need to send more NDP MP's to Ottawa" **BIG SMILE - Crazy thrusting hand gestures**. What the hell is that? Don't tell me to do something, and don't tell me why not to do something else, tell me why do do the thing you want.

In general I think that the best case scenario based on what the polls are saying is a Conservative minority. It's not what I want in any way, but I don’t see any other party coming out on top with the left divided. At least a minority will water down the Conservative agenda and they can only accomplish major things with the aid of other parties votes.

Voting is pretty simple. Look at what is being said. Determine which party you agree with the most. Look at your riding and determine which candidate you like the most. If the two mesh together then the choice is made. If they two things clash then you need to determine what is more important to you: you’re party winning, or an MP that you think best represents your area best.

If you start thinking about how to vote in an MP that will be in the ruling party in the hopes that more will be done for your area, or how to place your vote to keep the party you dislike from winning things will become overly complicated.

All my opinion. Vote the way YOU want, that’s the point. Cut me up if you want, it’s MY opinion and I voted the was I wanted, you most likely will not come close to changing my mind… plus I already voted so it doesn’t matter.

Posted by Katie on Jan 18, 2006
I think there are a TON of people out there who are probably Liberal, but leaning towards the right.

I would guess that most of us are either already to the left or Liberal leaning that way (except for Paul Duffy of course) but what about our parents (sorry Mona), grandparents and myriad of others who lean slightly to the right but generally vote liberal because the conservatives are a little too right for their liking??

If they think along the same lines as your earlier post, they're going to vote conservative. Absolutely, definitely. There is no way someone who is right leaning will vote NDP. Or Green. Or any of the other parties.

And again, I think there are a lot of those people out there. And those people are, in my opinon, likely the ones who have put the Conservatives ahead in the polls so far.

Posted by phduffy on Jan 18, 2006
Not sure why you'd say I don't lean left, just because I don't like the Liberals?

And the Green party has relatively strong support from old Ontario PCs and federal PCS (I say relatively because they're still only at 5%).

Posted by Katie on Jan 18, 2006
The impression I got from your posts was that you are going to vote for the Conservatives. Perhaps I misinterpreted....sorry.....I forget that you love being the devil's advocate. But am now confused.

But if you are, there is no way you're leanin' left these days. I mean......that's got to be hurting you! Pretty big stretch.

Posted by Nerhael on Jan 18, 2006
I think it's pretty easy to be a bit of column A, and a bit of column B.

I think I'm general conservative when it comes to money. Period.

Socially though, I'm pretty left.

In general, social issue trump money for me, so I lean more left.

If someone is that borderline Katie that they barely care about the two parties, I still think they made a logical choice to vote conservative. The party that they were slightly swayed towards fucked up a few times, so that's bound to make you want to swing the other way this time around.

Posted by phduffy on Jan 18, 2006
Okay, to Katie's point.

I think there are people out there who aren't comfortable with the Liberals.
While you may call it one scandal, some people think of it as:

HRDC boondoggle
Gun Registry
Ad Scan
Income Trusts
The Valeri property thing.

Personally, I didn't really have a problem with the HRDC thing, because it wasn't as though they just gave the money away, it was more that their records of where it went weren't very good. And the gun registry may or may not have been a good idea, I wasn't sure. Still, there's no reason to be 500 times over budget. However, when we start to hear about all the money that was funneled to various agencies ($10,000 for an oral report, 4 million for 10 page documents), that ain't right. Add that to the recent current investigations... and I think a lot of people are left thinking "anyone but the Liberals". I'm not sure where the 30 and 50 million figures being quoted are coming from... do you guys have sources for that? I had thought it was much more.

Regardless, people start to think, anyone but the Liberals. Even if they mostly agree with the policies of the Liberals, people start to think that they won't keep them, or even if they keep their promises, they won't be able to keep their hands out of the cookie jar. So, they look around. Alot of Liberal voters may have liked the debt reduction and income and corporate tax cuts that Paul Martin brought around... so they look at the Conservatives. Who aren't really planning to cut any significant programs, but look like they'll cut taxes. Even if you're worried about the social issues, they can't do anything about them,so you may not be bothered.

Now, I think that alot of people are doing this because they want to see a Conservative minority, not majority, government (although the latest poll had 55% of Canada okay with a C majority). How things will change now that the Conservatives are on the cusp of a majority I don't know.

As for my voting preference, some of this I"m just putting out there because I want to make sure everyone's clear on what's going on. I see zero evidence that the Conservatives are interested in increasing a wage or class gap. Same with the abortion and social stuff. There's no policies that promote increased wage/class gaps, or social stuff. For the social stuff, it's true that they probably have a lot of members who'd like that stuff, but it's also true that even with a majority, they won't really be able to do much about it.

Katie, you made some good points about what things would be like if the Conservatives had been in power over the last 10 years or so. The once piece I disagree with however is this:

But, if these people were in power during the last 10 years, who's to say that they wouldn't have done the same as Liberals, and worse?

Why is this the case? What evidence do you have of that? And of course, even if that was true, then we'd now have an opportunity to kick them out. Letting someone steal from you, and not doing anything about it because you think someone else might have done it, because people in the past did it, isn't very convincing to me.

Mike, I thought you had an excellent post, and I think I pretty much agree with everything you said in it.

In all seriousness, if you're thinking of voting Liberal, I have a question. Assuming that their policies remain similar to your own, is there anything they could do to make you vote for someone else? If not, you're giving them free rein to treat the country as their personal amusement park.

And Kristian, good post. Well, at least the part where I gave you really good advice, not so sure about the part where I was the local raving lunatic.

Oh yeah
Posted by phduffy on Jan 18, 2006
Mike, I mispoke about the Green corporate tax cuts. I think they have a few very targeted cuts, but overall they're into reducing personal taxes, particularly for those making less than $45,000 a year. Thanks.

Petey petey pete
Posted by alltogethernow on Jan 18, 2006
Being right leaning on money and left on social issues ...
these really aren't 2 seperate issues just one..

With a conservative government the whole aim (and correct me if i am wrong economics guru PHDuffy)... is usually for the government to stay out of people's and business's lives...

The conservatives reduce government spending, taxes, constraints (like environmental protections and labour protections) and social programs and basically let everyone fend for themselves.. (see the USofA)...
<< Thats capitalism.. if people need something the government shouldn't provide it.. the free economy and compeditive business will do it better (of course)

The left leaning (or more socialist) government will increase taxes, and use that extra cash to give us more social programs and government funded initiatives.. A program that can go too far and lead to retardedness like the kind of socialism that exists in those lovely nordic countries >>> left leaning

unless by "social issues" you mean issues like 'Being Gay" or "Legalize Weed" or "14 is the age of consent" or "Marrying a Horse"... then i would be retarded and this post unnecessary

Posted by phduffy on Jan 18, 2006
I don't think there's a party running in this election who wants to raise taxes.
Well, not a party that will get more than 2% of the vote.

As for what you're describing, that might be the basic theory, but it certainly doesn't represent what's happened in Canada.

Trudeau and Mulroney spent spent spent and increases taxes. The Liberals came in and cut taxes and cut spending back. Right now, both the Liberals and Conservatives are talking about increasing spending and cutting taxes (how that would work I have no idea). There's no party in Canada (again major party) who wants to drastically cut spending.

I think there's lots of propoganda thrown out. Like the Conservatives are Republicans, the NDP are socialists, the Greens are just the NDP with an environmental concern... and none of its really true.

Also, those lovely nordic countries you refer to have some of the lowest corporate tax rates in the world. And Norway has the highest per capita income of the world.

Posted by kristian on Jan 18, 2006
Who loves your rants more than me?

Posted by cosmicfish on Jan 18, 2006
I just meant that no one's perfect, everyone/party has or will make mistakes.

I'm going NDP or Green now...

Do you think if Canada fined people who didn't vote the results would be hugely different?

Posted by alltogethernow on Jan 19, 2006
hey amidst all this talk of who you are voting for i don't believe we've heard your opinion yet...

So far you have said the Conservatives are not 'Scary' but you aren't voting for them..

You have said that Paul Martin's government is corrupt and your aren't voting for them..

You haven't said much about Green or NDP except the fact that they aren't corrupt...

Please elaborate good sir and give us your take on why you should/shouldn't vote for them... KKKKKK?

Posted by phduffy on Jan 19, 2006
Who I'm voting for is my own business.

There is a hint in one of my posts though.

Posted by kristian on Jan 19, 2006
If you wont tell us who you are going to vote for...

...maybe you can share your PIN number?

Posted by phduffy on Jan 20, 2006
I was asked for a list of some reasons I'm not voting Liberal.
I've had a hard time finding one that's not biased.
I found this:

Which is obviously biased, but does provide a nice memory job. (I'd forgotten about Shawinigate for example).

Voting help
Posted by corncobrob on Jan 20, 2006
Do this short quiz to see whose ideas you agree with!

Scott Brison...
Posted by phduffy on Mar 09, 2006
You moron. Down you go I guess.

Here's his emails, from today's National Post, to someone at a bank.

From: Scott Brison
Sent: Nov. 22, 3:38 p.m., 2005
Subject: Test
Hi Dan
How is life? Do you have 's phone number?

Sent: Nov. 22, 3:45 p.m., 2005
Hey scott
Things are good, except for the government bringing the equity markets to a standstill. number is

From: Scott Brison
Sent: Nov. 22, 5:53 p.m., 2005
I think you will be happier very soon ... this week probably
Best, S

NOV. 23
Following Mr. Goodale's announcement

Sent: Nov. 23, 8:26 p.m., 2005
Nice work

From: Scott Brison
Sent: Nov. 23, 2005
U happy?

Sent: Nov. 23, 2005, 8:51 p.m.
I can't express my joy properly